Vlad in Cbox

[George]

Ok, I've been grounded so I've been away and I haven’t been able to say what I think. Here it is, and it’s going to be long…



Vladimir is truly AMAZING, and NONE of you have the right to say half the things you've said, including you Bay.



You may think that I don't belong in this conversation, that it's wrong of me to just stick my toe in and state my opinion, especially sense it seems to have been settled, and now I'm stirring up an old argument. But, I do, because I'm not going to stand around and watch people talk to my vlad like that. Wonder who suggested that vlad join? Yeah, it's me. Your Pirouette. I was the one who talked so highly of you guys, saying what a wonderful site the new Lemorsea is, and begging her to join, saying she wouldn't regret it. I assured her that the people here are wonderful. She is having a terrible time at home, as I see she's stated in the cbox. Vlad didn't think she had time to join an RP, but I told her it would be fun. It was supposed to take her mind off of real life crap. Does that sound familiar Bay? You guys are my friends. I thought there wouldn't be any trouble, I had no doubt, but you guys let me down. I'm so angry right now. Actually, I feel sick. Usually I don't get worked up over silly little things online. I feel I can compromise and try and work things out, hoping not to be the cause of much trouble. But today, right in this very instant, I'm shaking. Seriously. I can't type strait. Sense when have you guys been so huffy and up tight?!


Ok, now you think I'm disregarding what Vlad has 'done' and trying to put her in a better light to make you feel terrible about what you've said; am I close? Well people, look what Bay said! She completely attacked the way Vladimir posts! And Bay, you can't say you didn't. You've done it before as well. Remember the confrontation you, pac, timeh and I had? Suddenly, there's my old friend on a high horse, declining perfectly good requests, making 'suggestions' she has no right to make, critiquing pictures that are a lot better than some of her own from people that have been making pictures longer than she has, INCLUDING people that helped teach her how to make them. Bay, Vlads posts are unique, and people can understand them, you just have to try. If you still can't understand, then just ask her what she means, don't go attacking things you don't understand yet, just ask her. Her posts are different, and different can be good. One person, I'm sorry I forget who, said that the diversity is what makes RPGing fun, seeing and enjoying the differences of people, characters and ideas. Different syntax fits into that category just the same. Some of you know my characters, for example, the character Pirouette. She was schizophrenic and insane all in one. Not one person commented at how unrealistic that was, and no one said it wasn’t ok to play her. Many people enjoyed reading my posts because of the humor in her. And very few of you many remember Geisteskrankheit. Surprisingly, the only thing wrong with her was that she was crazy. Many people commented about how funny she was. The only person who thought it wasn’t so amusing was Bay. Don’t you remember the comments you made about how Winds of Change is a normal site, and people here do things in a proper way and no one is crazy? That was your whole spiel about how Winds was superior to my characters, and me, also how Winds didn’t need someone like me. Apparently then, your excuse was that you were having a bad day too. Bay, you are one of the few online friends I’m still in touch with from way back in the beginning to horseland RPGing, and that is special. All of the admins, Bay, Pac and Mou are my friends, along with some of the players, and I don’t want to loose that. But seriously, this is getting absolutely ridiculous (And I’m not saying all of you are being unreasonable or even involved.).


I’m disrespecting and talking back to an admin. Actually, I’m talking trash about an admin… you gonna ban me? I’m never going to agree with you, and I’m just going to state what I think and never shut up, because this is unreasonable. So is that grounds for banning me? Banning your faithful, trusted Pirouette? Maybe you should, maybe I don’t even want to RP here anymore and I was wrong about this whole place, but before you can, I have more to say.


1.) No where in the rules does it say you have to post a specific way, so there were no grounds for the original accusation.
2.) Wouldn’t you be angry if someone just blurts out how terrible your posts are, and how bad your writing is? Especially if you are older than the accuser (yes Bay, she is older than you by many years). I'm not saying that that means she is better, I'm just saying it's not very good for a persons self-esteem.
3.) When we RP, we are always trying to improve our writing skills. Everyone needs to respect the different ways that is done, and to support each other. It’s just plain rude not to.
4.) Bay, you act as if your posts are amazing, using them as examples, but the spelling mistakes could fill a dictionary. That right there is extremely annoying, I should know because I’m not a very good speller myself. But I’m trying, and my friends (Yes, Vlad) support me, and KINDLY tell me when I’m wrong. We ALL have places where we need to improve, because no matter how good you are, there’s always room to get better.
5.) Admins can be admins and friends at the same time. Or, at least they can be admins and NICE at the same time.
6.) Bay, your ‘suggestion’ looked more like a put-down and a command rather than a suggestion to me.
7.) There is such a thing as first person posting.
8.) Rping can be poetic. When it is, it’s very nice.
9.) Bay, you can’t just go around calling people a dumb ass. And if you do, you can’t expect them to obey your rules.
10.)People need to start acting mature and a bit more their age for once.
11.)You know, I could go on. Like about how exceptionally rude most of you were, about how the comments ‘grow up’, ‘act mature’ and ‘SAVE THE DRAMA FO' YO' MOMMA!’ thrown at Vladimir should have actually been thrown at you. Also, the people who joined the conversation later attack Vlad with the ‘Bays an admin, respect her’, and ‘no need to get all pissy’, well what the hell else was she going to do?! She started out acting mature, but EVERYONE else went all psycho-bitch on her! And then you expect her not to do the same!?!?



Ok, I’m just going to stop here because this is getting awfully long. You know, go ahead and ban me if you’re too foolish and immature to try and see where I am coming from. I wouldn’t be surprised if this post is deleted to hide it from the public either… but what ever. If you can’t open up and admit that you were wrong the I don’t even care. PLEASE, please feel free to post what you think, but I’d appreciate it if we all move past the yelling, and the accusations and talk in a civilized manner. Yes, I realize my post wasn’t very civilized, but look at your posts in the cbox. I should at least get a chance to say plainly what I feel as well. So I have, and now we all know what we think and we can move on and talk about it, or be bitches, ignore my post, and consider the fact that Vlad is a dumb ass final. Of course, if that is the case, then screw you all, and good bye. If not, then I congratulate you, and honor you very much.



Thanks for reading this everyone, and I hope you have a merry Christmas, or a happy Hanukkah, or if you celebrate something else, I'm sorry, but I hope you have a happy holiday.

[Fiction]

Okay, I've tried to stay for the most part out of the whole fight, but now I'm going to comment.

I believe that the whole thing was started by Bay criticizing Vlad for her posts, am I right? I believe it was this:

hmm. ok, when you rp, dont write it like a poem. write it like a story, flow it dont chop it. It isn't my cup of tea for a battle post and can be quite a fluster to some people, luckily i understand it. write normally please

Now, everything said can be taken two ways. Someone who is nonconfrontational can accept the criticism (even grudgingly) and move on, or they can fight it. Vlad fought it. Bay fought back. That whole chain of events turned into senseless namecalling, unecessary criticism that was said in a way that was meant to be hurtful, and a number of other things. It takes two to fight. I believe neither were right in this situation, no matter how hard that may be for anyone to hear. To stop the fight, someone has to surrender. Neither did, and when no one could discover a correct resolution for the situation, Vlad was simply banned and disposed of so that no one had to think of it anymore. I'm not saying that it's right or wrong, I'm just saying that's what happened.

I think that both were wrong in this case. People who come here who are not the best of RPers should expect to attempt improvements, and I believe Vlad (yes, I'm speaking for her here) would have been more that willing to do this. Bay was offering her advice on how to improve, but it was also more than that. Just because you don't agree with someone's style or can't understand it doesn't mean that no one can. You have your opinions, I have mine, and it's as simple as that. NO ONE'S opinions are more important than the other, they simply are. Now FACTS, that's different. There is a right and a wrong to a fact. Either it's true or false. Opinions, there is no true or false. Where am I going with all of this? It was fine for Bay to offer criticism, but it was also unasked for and opinionated. A single sentence can be interpreted a million different ways. The internet makes it even more difficult to interpret something because there is no voice intination, simply written words. This makes it hard to determine whether something was innocent or meant in malice. Vlad (who, as was afore mentioned, is obviously going through a very difficult time in her life) did indeed interpret it as she did and disagreed strongly with Bay's opinion. Now if Vlad had ASKED for Bay's opinion, then it would have been fine and she would have had no right to disagree with whatever opinion was offered. As it is, it can be countered because it was her post concerned and she can write however she wants too. That IS one of the nice things about an RPG - you are not limited like you are in an English class. You can be creative and different and even vague if you so desire and no one should say anything about it because it's simply your style. Does all that make sense? I hope it does.

Now, what I don't agree with whatsoever is the continuation of the fight. Here both parties are to be blamed. Both Vlad and Bay began throwing insults until that little ember that could have quickly died ignited into a fire that ended in Vlad being banned. Either one of you could have let it rest, simply allowed it and continued on with your lives, but instead you decided to take the insults, get mad as it is so easy to do, and based on that single emotion, wanted to hurt the other person with additional insults. That is not okay. And I must say, although I think both were at fault here, Vlad WAS going through a very difficult time, and surely we can ALL understand that we can be easily angered or grouchy or whatever you want to call it when times are bad. If you say you don't, well, you either haven't been through hard times or you're being delusional. And I mean that in the best possible respect. I'm not throwing insults here, simply stating with as unbiased opinion I can manage what I think of the situation.

Note also that Vlad said this...

I'm sorry, but I just don't do well with people telling me how I can and can't write.

Whether said in anger or not, sarcastic or not, it should have been heeded and the subject dropped. If she wasn't good enough upon joining, then she shouldn't have been permitted to join. But the admins allowed her to join as her posts were at the time and so her posts should not have been criticized afterwards. Friendly advice is one thing, but what was an opinion turned into war and both of you were too proud to simply let the subject drop. I know, it is hard, but it can be done. We all have to do it every day. Would you have fought about something like this with your teacher, with a perfect stranger that is years older than you? Probably not. If someone offered you advice who was 80 years old that you didn't know (so long as you are a fairly nice and considerate person), you probably would just nod your head and move on, even if you were gritting your teeth in the mean time. If you gave someone who was 80 years old in the same situation advice and they turned it down, saying that they didn't want to change and were perfectly fine the way they are, then you probably wouldn't argue with them now, would you? I know, I know, it's two completely different situations and completely irrelevant and all that, but is it really? Think about it.

So there's my thoughts. Please, no one kill me because these are my opinions. I know they are not facts, I'm simply stating my thoughts on this dilemma.

[George]

Lol, I'm not going to kill you. That was beautiful and well said... and completely unbiased.


Thank you for replying.

[Bay]

Piro, listen. Im sorry but i got pissed off. I started, as Fiction said, with a minor simple citique because i couldnt read her posts easily and thought she might benifit from normal writing and making it clear. But she got all nasty and bitchy to me, as im an admin, and decided to get on her tall mighty high horse about her writing and insult me, etc. I fought back because thats what I've been taught to do, to stand up for myself and what i say. I did that, now im getting yelled at for defending myself. I dont think that is quite fair either in my oppion is it? no. i might have gotten nasty and bitchy, but she got all up in MY face about everything, and acted like a simple, polite critique was as if I said "Your writing sucks! get off the site or get writing 1ks!" did i? No. But being nice and kind didnt get me anywhere with her, and i tried everything but ended up getting just in her face as she had to me, I will fight back just as hard as someone goes at me, and possibley a tad more. But I tried to get across to her to please write better so I could judge better. Then she started yelling at ME for deleteing old OOCs in threads and for just doing my JOB by tidying things, and I told her I was doing me job. Then she became rash and rude towards me and if she wants to be a bitch to an admin, I will be just as big of a bitch as her. Moulin didn't stand for her insults and yelling at me for my job doing. God forbid i try and clean up the site and keep it organized. Moulin banned her for continuing to be rash and rude, and not listening to us no matter what we said, how we said it, or what it was over. She said i was favorising Wesson, which i wasent, and that she wanted another admin (moulin) to do it, and I told her she wouldnt be any different than I. I never favortze anyone for anything, if i love them or if i hate them. I have a good judging reputation and alot of people ask me to give the final verdict on fights once the judging is over, because I know just about everything of the effect of something. I have judged two good friends, one good friend and one unknown, two enemies, two unknowns, and enemy and a friend. I never gave favortism, I never play favorites, i hate it when others do it and refuse to be like that. It is wrong and just plain mean. Perhaps i was mean, but she had no right to get on her high horse and start yelling at me for doing my job and getting all up in my buisness, like cleaning threads. So, I did my job, and countered her with equal force and attitude. I started nice and polite, and she started getting in my face. and i refuse to stand here and let her get all in my face about things and not fight back and be polite as I was when i started out. I had a good reason, and she started the whole predicament by getting out of hand, rash and rude. There is my side of this lovely story, because it is the truth and nothing but.

[kyr]

I cannot stand this any longer

I've read the conversations in the C-Box

I've read the posts in the battle grounds

I've read these posts

Everyone is at each other's throats! Now, this could have been prevented by both Bay and Vlad. Bay could have stated the critique in a nicer way, more like a suggestion than a command. If that hadn't happened, Vlad could have ignored it. Then hey, we wouldn't be here now.

But, seeing as it went farther, I think almost everyone is at fault. Don't get me wrong, I love you all, but there was definitely some things said that shouldn't have been. Vlad was outnumbered, and basically cornered, and the fight probably should have been kept between Vlad and Bay. still, it shouldn't have been there at all, but I think some people were just siding with Bay because she was an admin.

This went way too far. It was immature, on both parts. some more than others, but I'm not going to go on a side. it's not worth it.

<3 kyr

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